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Nh meet of champions (mocs) 2016

Discussion in 'Results - Tournaments' started by Maple Grove, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. wrestling101

    wrestling101 Member Registered

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    Very well written and I agree with your post.

    Classy: “He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.”
     
  2. Joe Laplante

    Joe Laplante Well-Know Member Registered

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    I don't view Classy's points as making excuses.

    Classy may not attract universal support for his positions, but one thing I like about his posts (assuming he's a guy -- I have no idea) is that he doesn't assume we can understand these situations based on what we see on the surface. We all think we can size up these situations based on what we see, but the fact is that we don't know. Is a kid fleeing the mat out of uncontrolled emotions or poor sportsmanship, or is he just imitating what he thinks is appropriate conduct, win or lose, by college wrestlers? We don't know. Is the coach permitting what looks like bad behavior, or addressing it out of view? We don't know. Does a kid have strong parental support in the areas of public behavior and wrestling etiquette, or is the kid basically on his own? We don't know. Do all the kids from a given team train at the same offseason club? We don't know.

    The fact is, as Classy points out, we frequently don't know. And we shouldn't necessarily assume the worst.
     
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  3. Classy

    Classy Well-Know Member Registered

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    Much more eloquently said, thank you.
     
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  4. PH185

    PH185 Well-Know Member Registered

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    Joe,
    I understand the points Classy brings up. I'm just stating that it looks bad and it seems that it is getting more prominent. I don't care for it and I feel that it makes the individual, their team, and their coaches look bad. I have had to intervene on occasion and remind some of my kids about their actions to which they immediately apologize for those actions. Just my viewpoint.
     
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  5. jason.cumming

    jason.cumming Active Member Registered

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    This is a very valid point and I know is what Classy was trying to say. Without trying to violate HIPPA laws, I have and still coach many kids with emotional issues at both Central and at Gryphons. They actually have 504s and IEPs for having Emotional/Behavioral Disorders and Conduct Disorders. I get it. I know how it looks to some who may not have to deal with it on a daily basis in the practice room, let alone the intensity of meet or tournament days. To those who don't know the wrestler...yes, it looks bad. But as parents, don't we also teach our children to not judge those we don't know? I had one of my club kids upset because his dad told him he couldn't go to Nationals if he didn't place at MOCs. To an emotionally challenged kid, that's not the added pressure that he needed at all-states. A lot of my wrestlers in Manchester see wrestling as a way out, some see it as a path to a better life. They want to break the cycle of failure that has perpetuated their family's choices. When they "fail", they take it as more than just a lost match. It's a lost opportunity for them to go to college in their minds. I do reel them in, but many of these kids come from immigrant families that take pride in winning and losing; losing in the homeland is a matter much bigger than just pride. It's actual public shame. I have watched it and have gone face-to-face with parents to get them to back down. As a coach for these kids, I'm not a fallback. I'm a mentor. There is a huge difference between being a mentor and a plan B. As a mentor, I have to know when to address the problem and how to address it. My methods now are much different than they were when I first started coaching (thanks to all of these wonderful classes I am taking for Special Ed.) But my point is that most of these kids live what are the worst nightmares for other competitors in the room. Most people in these gyms don't even have the slightest inkling what these kids are going through at home. To judge them because of the way they exit the mat...I just find it just as bad as the behavior that is being judged.

    In the case of the wrestler whose behavior started this discussion, try to put yourself in his shoes. First off, I only saw him do a run-off...I didn't see it the way some are perceiving it. But let's go with that scenario. Here is a kid (he is just a kid) that has phenomenal success at such a young age. When was the last time a NH wrestler was ranked as an incoming freshman in the top 10 pound-for-pound? I was there at Nationals last year when he won Middle School Nationals. I know he also received an award for fastest combined pins, pretty sure he brought home the OW of Nationals. He is expected to perform at a high level by everyone watching him. He has set a really high bar for himself and it shows in his fluidity. If he isn't happy with the way he wrestled, that is his right. The kid pinned his way through Nationals and couldn't pin his way through the state tournament? I'm not saying that is what went through his mind, but is it that far-fetched? Who are we to know what was going through his mind. He may have had an expectation in his mind of what he wanted to do and how he wanted to achieve it. If he didn't achieve that level and this is what his whole life is about, what everything in his life has been a culmination of, if he feels that it is the level that he must perform and compete at...who are we to fault the kid? I admire everything he has accomplished and am going to enjoy watching him the next three years. My wrestlers at Central study every move he does. He has a chance to be an amazing ambassador and representative of wrestling in NH, does a great job working with the younger wrestlers at the Barn. With all of that, are we really going to judge him because of the way he exits a mat? He wins, he shakes his opponent's hand, he leaves in the manner that he knows. He didn't hurt anyone or disrespect anyone. So what's the problem?

    That being said, I do agree also with the point that the slapping of hands and blowing through the tapes and chairs is unwarranted. I remember watching a NH wrestler rip off his bloodied bandages a few years ago at Lowell and throw it as his coach. I guarantee the coach dealt with it at an appropriate time. I think back to my first MOC ever saw back in 2010. I watched a top-seeded wrestler get D-pinned and lose his mind blowing through his coaches, the barriers, and spectators. It was wrong on every level but let the coaches deal with it. Let's reel in the parents that are booing wrestlers (talk about a bad example), stop bashing the kids on this forum, and keep the positivity going that has been on this forum for the most part this year. We have the sport moving in a positive direction in this state as far as sportsmanship and quality of wrestling. Let's get the fan-base doing the same.
     
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  6. Maple Grove

    Maple Grove Well-Know Member Blog User

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    I have to agree with both PH185 and Froctal on this issue of sportsmanship at the end of bouts: offering a proper handshake at the end of each bout is not optional, but something that MUST be insisted upon, if the proper spirit of wrestling is to be maintained. This is what a young man must learn to do, even in the face of a painful defeat, then move on and work harder, as John says his son was motivated to do, for the next time.

    Why else is this post-bout behavior addressed in the Rule Book? Same goes for throwing one's headgear, dropping shoulder straps while on the mat, etc.

    If coaches and refs do not insist on good sportsmanship, wrestling will be brought into disrepute. We should all instill those actions in our wrestlers from the earliest Peewee years onward, starting with parents who then back up the coaches teaching our youth.

    Think about how the Marines or any of the other armed services train their recruits during Boot Camp: do those DIs brook any of this insolent, disrespectful behavior, or do they deal with it immediately and forcefully? And by so doing they mold young men and women into a cohesive fighting force in a matter of weeks, people coming in from all walks of life. Jason knows this as well as anyone.

    The point is no exceptions, no excuses. If we expect these athletes to act like young adults at this high school age, they will rise to that level of behavior. They'll be better for it and so will wrestling as a sport.
     
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  7. nhwrstlfan

    nhwrstlfan Well-Know Member Registered

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    Two thoughts:

    First,
    I think people are taking the use of the words between mentor and plan B (fallback) too seriously. To some kids coaches are a mentor and a role model who has competed in a sport where the parents are present in the child's life but do not possess the wrestling or coaching knowledge that the coach has. In other situations where the home life stinks, coaches along with his teachers and school community are fallback and a mentor, like it or not. This is one of the best gifts of being a coach, the chance to have the opportunity to have a positive impact on someone.

    Second,
    One of the things that's being lost here is the lack of respect for the opponent that these demonstrations show. Regardless of how good someone is in wrestling, the majority of their opponents are putting in the blood sweat and tears, often with less talent. They're not walking out on the mat to flop to their backs simply because their opponent won a national middle school title or they were seeded above them in a bracket. Otherwise, why even wrestle the matches.
     
  8. Joe Laplante

    Joe Laplante Well-Know Member Registered

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    I can't disagree with ANY of what I'm reading here.

    I'm not a high school coach. I just help a guy I know who knows the sport (Kris Rowlette) run an offseason club. When a kid disrespects the sport or a participant, there's a consequence. Every time.

    But that's because I know, firsthand, what the situation is, and it's never acceptable (even when it's understandable). Just like PH185 at Pelham, Jason at Central, etc. who know their kids and situations.

    But when I don't know, I tend to reserve judgment.
     
  9. Classy

    Classy Well-Know Member Registered

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    What was done on the mat that was disrespectful to an opponent? From everything I had read here, his emotions took place after the match and outside of the gym.

    Where is the PC police around here? I want some arrests made.
     
  10. Windhamfan

    Windhamfan Newbie Registered

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    I am just a parent who has been involved in NH HS Wrestling the last (4) Years. As my son is graduating I will only have a limited view moving forward. I wrestled in HS but that was so long ago and a whole different era. My views are from a parents view. I think the sportsmanship issue has progressively worsened over the last (4) Years. I know this isn't scientific and I have not watched every match available so I certainly have missed things. I am thankful my kid wrestled at Windham because I can honestly say that I have only seen a handful of instances where I cringed at the way one of Coach Darrin's boys left a match in either victory or defeat. I'm not wussyfying the sport by saying I think some of these kids don't keep this sport in perspective. I think it's because of the inordinate amount of time some of them spend focused on wrestling. I think for many of these kids..not all...wrestling is their life. They are not old enough in my opinion to handle that type of focus when disappointment sets in. It is absolutely the Parents that need to put the brakes on the expectations and then the coaches need to manage those expectations and the emotions. This sport is the best at training its athletes for struggles in life. It's you and your opponent for six minutes or so and no one can step on the mat to help you out or do it for you. I have been to three MOC's. I will not name the programs but I can honestly say there are a couple of Teams that seem to always have the issues. It's pretty amazing considering the success they have had. I understand the pressure on the kids in one of these programs because there is another kid waiting to take your spot if you have a bad day. You can see the pressure on their faces. I understand the pressure is what separates the best but c'mon some of these kids that act like this don't have a shot of wrestling beyond HS. That is where the coaches have to pull that kid aside and teach them. When you see the same kid do it over and over then you have to figure it's either not fixable or the coaches condone the antics. I know many of the Wrestling Rooms that kids go to not only stress technique but also being a good sport. I'm not saying its the rooms; I guess I am saying most of these kids need be playing other sports to keep success or failure on the mat in perspective.
     
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